Ruiner, contd.

This will be a rant. Though it’s a blog I normally don’t do rants – but seeing how I started this shitstorm it’s only fitting I try to clean up the mess. And I have better things to do than argue with Internet warriors in the comments, it’s a loosing battle so one last post and I’m done with it.

First, thank you people for all the kind words. I didn’t say I WILL raise the prices, just that I’m considering it. The example I gave was just that, an example. But then again if I do add more security to my new projects I might have no other choice but to revise the pricing somewhat. All of that is still something I’m thinking about.

Second, I expected the “it’s your fault” argument but it still surprises me how many people belive that. This is my last ditch attempt at explaining my position, I will ignore any further comments on that.

So you say it’s all because of poor availability that you buy clones. And you give me “an offer I can’t refuse” – either I make more devices or you will buy the clone. Moral, legal and free market arguments aside, that is simply put bullshit.

Let’s say I priced my devices 250 Euro a piece. Or, better yet, 500. How many people do you think would buy a GDEMU for 500? I’d be lucky to sell any at all. So I would have stock, since nobody is buying. Great availability. Except now you’d claim (and rightfully so) that my prices are insane, and you want to get my device but can’t pay so much so you’re going to buy the clone instead. Same story, different angle.

So, really, what you want is that I have both stock and low price. And while I fully understand that, it’s not how things work, I have my limits. And not just me, there has been and will be a lot of other products out there that people want, and cheaply too. And they are not going to get it. The latest being RAM and GPUs for example.

In fact I belive I can stretch this argument further – if I had the device more often in stock you’d demand other concessions. Lower the price. Have the orders always open. Lower the price again. Because it’s the same demand all over again – the cloners have it, and they have it cheaper.

Well, the whole point of cloning is that all you have to do is manufacturing. No R&D, no software, no testing, no work on other devices, nothing but manufacturing. And in a place where both the parts and labor are way cheaper the price is always going to be better than mine. So I can NEVER, ever, win on the price or availability – and so you’ll always have the argument that the cloner is just “better business” for you.

Now, granted, some might say that if the price is close enough they would rather buy the original. Well gee, thanks. But it’s again the same argument, either I meet your demands on what you think you should pay me, or you will just pay the thieves to steal from me instead. What’s not to like? “Here, have my 50$” for a device that costs me more in parts. “Don’t want it? I’m buying a clone instead and you should learn how to do business.”

As for the argument that you are staying up untill 5 in the morning to get into ordering queue, well, the Earth is round (belive it or not). From my point of view you live on the opposite side of it. But sure, feel free to blame me for that as well. After all I don’t need to sleep. And please spare me that old argument that you’d wait for months if necessary if you only you were sure to get the ODE. My current waiting times are weeks and already the attrition rate near the end of the list is so big that I take more orders than I have stock. So that’s bullshit too, I know from experience. I did a “long” list once, accidentaly, and that was an unmitigated disaster.

Morality and legality of buying clones aside, that is just a short-term gain and long-term loss for you, though I guess you don’t care. The message it sends is the device has to expensive and well secured. You’re going to bitch anyway, might as well profit on it. As for me – once burned, twice shy. There is perhaps a great community supporting projects like mine but it’s much smaller than it seems. Most people just want cheap toys to play with and don’t care how they get them. Seems obvious but I underestimated just how low some are willing to stoop to get what they want.

And that’s it folks. If this didn’t convince you, nothing will. Except maybe if it happens to you – and I really would like for you to learn that this stick you’re beating me with has two ends. One can only hope.

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186 thoughts on “Ruiner, contd.

  1. DocBrown is next? or Saturn? Just want ot make sure I do not miss the docbrown payment request

  2. Hi GD !

    Actualy, i think your price is rather honest ! The Everdrive are about at the same price. The ONLY problem is the stock ! I live in France and it’s impossible to get your product if you are a too cool like me.

    But I respect the artisanal work and if you want absolutly to keep a small production, it’s fine for me. Never mind, i’ll never get a GDemu and a RHEA. It’s not the end of the wordl. It’s your work and you are the only one who can decide the maner you work and the method you enjoy.

    Keep up !

  3. Honestly, I think your price is fine as is, I’d even pay $25-50 more if it had better availability. I’m not giving you a hard time at all, I realize you’re a hobbyist with another full time job. I’ve not read all the drama and such so this may have been mentioned, but taking on a trustworthy partner such as stoneagegamer or gametechus might be an option. They can manufacture your product in a high quality manner and free you up for other pursuits.

    In my honest opinion, I think availability is the main issue (I understand why). I’ve been waiting for about a year to buy one from you and always seem to miss the ordering window. I could be more diligent but it’s genuinely tough for a consumer to watch for an ordering window for weeks/months at a time without missing them. Ebay scalpers are already making serious bank off of your work, might as well partner up and get the sales yourself.

    • I wish people would read the comments on here before offering their suggestions. The major takeaway from GDUMU’s post is more that he wants to protect his IP. And while he’d like to be able to get the product of his hard work in the hands of his customers, he doesn’t want to compromise the integrity of his work. He’s already lamenting the fact that because he tried to make his GDEMU more easily attainable it’s cloning has already begun.

      Krikzz partnering with stone age gamer has led to the flood of “chinese everdrives” you see on the market. Full on clones of Krikzz work. To suggest that, is to suggest GDEMU commit IP suicide.

      • “wants to protect his IP” Yet won’t even send an email to gdemu.net’s host?

        “Krikzz partnering with stone age gamer has led to the flood of “chinese everdrives” you see on the market.” Are you suggesting that SAG was involved in the cloning of ED devices? How *precisely* has selling a product through a 3rd party contributed to cloning?

        How is it that literally 100% of all products are at risk of cloning, many are cloned in one form or another, and yet their manufactures don’t have the issues presented here?

        If gdemu wants to protect his IP he needs to do something about it. Add DRM to his design, use the legal systems available to him, send a few emails to offenders, make the more available, etc. For all his talk of IP he seems rather ignorant of it’s enforcement and the legal expectations placed on him. Let alone the practical business and social expectations.

      • Oh god. It’s you again.

        Look, I think that you’re human garbage. Scum like you, present myopic concepts and ignore the greater information presented just to look correct to some small audience. But I will point out your stupidity once, and then say good bye.

        “their manufactures don’t have the issues presented here?” In your statement, “issues” is undefined, thus, you can pretend that somehow you’ve made some point. But you haven’t. If you had half a brain, you’d have read GDEMU’s post(s). He’s clarified exactly the steps he’s taken, and what his goals are. His goals, and the goals of other people are all different. The means of getting to these disparate goals are different. Resources available to these individuals are different and so on. Your narrow mind cannot grasp this point. Your narrow mind is only capable of perceiving 1 solution and treating it as panacea. This is because you’re a child or a retarded adult, either of which, I don’t care, and invalidate your opinions.

        So pretty please, with sugar on top: go fuck yourself, and take your nonsense with you.

      • You seem incapable of answering questions. You’re very good at white knighting and name calling though.

        Again: Are you suggesting that SAG was involved in the cloning of ED devices? How *precisely* has selling a product through a 3rd party contributed to cloning?

        Do you understand that IP infringement almost always requires the holder to take action? If he’s interested in safeguarding his brand or IP he must take actions to do so in some form or another?

        “issues” = any and all that has been spoken / complained about in these threads. Don’t be obtuse.

        Abe: regarding gdemu.net and such. Yes, he did not trademark his name but that doesn’t matter. It could still be considered fraud to present one’s self as something they aren’t. To sell pirate goods. It takes next to zero effort to draft an email to the website and hosting company. What does he have to lose? They say no? At least he has evidence of attempting to manage the situation.

      • All you’re doing is proving you didn’t read the post(s), or didn’t understand it. I’m inclined to believe the latter. Because I honestly believe you’re the king of the retards. Everything you’ve written is either negated or answered the post(s).

        Now, do the world a favor and sterilize yourself.

      • Protecting the IP can be hard. When you live in one country you have only a few limited IP protections in others and none at all in some.

        GDEMU.net is not violating anytbing with their namesake. They bought the domain and since GDEMU is not trademarked there is not protection for the namesake. As for what they sell on the site, that could be up for debate. If he is selling clones, then yes, you have a case, if his country will allow it to send a C&D for the sale of the clone devices ad you could even go after the domain name if they do not comply, but again it has to do with what rules and laws apply here.

        For someone as small as D. here, he is already fighting a lossing battle. The Genie is out of the bottle so to speak so there is not much he can do as far as the ones floating around. I can tell you this. Clones, once discovered that they are not as good as the official ones will have an effect on the sale. People will wait. As far was what D. can do. My suggestion was a new NEW GDEMU device, a GDEMUTWO if I might be so bold. Which has new features which the clone does not. I would even suggest going as far as to adding USB on top of the SDCARD and go after MNEMO’s sales as well. All new features and DRM. Even if he asked $175 euro it would be cheaper than USBGDROM and be a better GDEMU. As long as he keeps updating firmwares for the original GDEMU owners and not forget about them, my guess is everyone who bought an original GDEMU would eventually buy a GDEMUTWO.

        D. is a smart guy. He is not as oblivious in certain areas of this business as you all would think. Everything he does I agree with. Some of you might disagree with the “Order window” method and the fact that he still hand builds each one and does not use a PCB maker to pop out a ton of these. I understand why he does it.

        Moving Foward, he will have to deal with the cloning of everything he does. It will happen, even if it is years down the road. RHEA/PHOBEE, Docbrown and any other ODE will eventually fall victim to someone who broke the DRM and starts producing their own. I think until that happens (even after) we continue to support D. and his ODEs. I personally Own more than a handful of them and I am very happy with the product.

        Let’s support D and give him a chance.

      • I understand your concerns, but with your example alone, legit everdrives still sell very well. Unfortunately the GDEMU has been cloned, pandora’s box is open. Once the product is cloned, you can NEVER unclone it. At this point IP protection measures could still be implemented, and sold through legit sites with a partner. Krikzz is still making money despite the chinese clones. If Krikzz refused to sell legit carts to customers waiting with money, chinese clones would take his potential sales. You will always have a scummy buyer segment of the market that will buy clones if they are even a dollar cheaper. You’re kind of rely on the goodwill of the community to buy legit carts. The community is not the enemy here, just scummy people. There will always be people who want to support the IPs of the actual people who make the hardware and invest the time and resources into making the devices. The trouble is, even potential customers with good will who want to do the right thing can be put off by the current ordering system. These are the market that will be hurt the most by clones.

        Take me for example, I will NEVER buy a cloned GDEMU but it’s been 2 years of missing the ordering windows on this site for me. I’ve pretty much resigned to the fact that I will never own a GDEMU. I’m a potential sale that is lost that will never be made. Others in my same situation would be very tempted to buy a clone. It’s not right, but that’s unfortunately how it works. If you don’t deliver a product to potential customers, other will, even if doing so in a manner of downright theft.

        I don’t believe making it easily accessible had anything to do with cloners cloning it. A cloner is out to make money. Even if the GDEMU was harder to get, they would still get it and try to steal other’s hard work to make a quick buck. For a chinese company they would gladly buy a $10k flash cart if it meant they could clone it and sell $100k worth of it to others. You can only make it harder on cloners or hackers, but you can never stop them. By definition if it were possible to stop this kind of things, no flash carts or even the GDEMU would exist.

        Suggesting he partners up with legit companies is not “commiting IP suicide”, it’s trying to breath life into an IP that has been cloned. The cloners are making money selling the stolen IP, why not make the IP more accessible so people with goodwill can legitimately buy it? I get it man, it’s frustrating as hell to put the work in and have someone steal your work and IP. At this point it’s about damage control.

      • Who are you arguing with here? None of your points are relevant. Your transparent concern trolling should embarrass you. Do yourself a favor and re-read the devs post(s) and then do us all a favor and shut the fuck already.

        As for not getting a GDEMU. If after the last sale, you didn’t get one, then you’re a retard or you’re not trying.

  4. The situation makes me sad. I’ll be honest, personally I could not justify spending extra money on these devices after buying a PS4, but I still followed this project, happy to know that someone did an amazing thing to preserve old machines. And maybe one day I would have the money.

    Imagine how infuriating it is to be robbed, not of a possession, but of the time and brilliance it took to create ODE. It is despicable, and a huge problem that China will never fix on it’s own.

  5. Big game arcade gamer here and huge Sega fan
    Get the damn thing avail to people without having to jump through hoops .
    I know so many people who would buy but can’t get it .,.grown men adults
    True story. …your fault
    There is demand for this product and true gamers will always want the original .
    Who cares about clones .
    Make it simple to order and supply excellent communication and easy payment methods you can’t got wrong .
    Audience will back you up
    Stand by your customers and it will be a great sucess .
    Fight with your Audience not good .
    Get the stock avail please asap
    And make it a simple ordering process
    All gamers aren’t programmers or scientist .
    I want to come to your site and add to cart simple as that !!!!
    Do it where waiting

    • All right, I’ll make it simple. I’ll sell GDEMU to anyone who wants, right now, for 750$. Same day shipping! No hoops, just leave your email and address in comments.

  6. Received and installed my GDEMU today along with the plastic 3D printed tray. Havent had much time to play with it but so cool. Great product! Thanks GDEMU! Hope to get a Phoebe for Saturn soon too!

  7. You should really look into ways to improve your manufacturing. You could keep the same prices, lower your cost, and improve your stock. This would also improve your profit margin, or lower the price a little to undermine the clones.

    Maybe try to contact Michael “EvilDragon” Mrozek (https://twitter.com/EvilDragon1717), he has a retro store in Germany and experience manufacturing indie electronics “en masse” in Europe.

    Really the only problem you have, from a business perspective, is actually reaching your customers. That’s why some people that wouldn’t dare buy clones normally are considering it in this case. You don’t deserve to have your device cloned and your work literally stolen, and it’s arguably inevitable in the end, but you could minimise the impact in has on your legitimate business and income.

    DISCLAIMER: I’ve had a GDEMU for a long time now, one of the first black PCB batch IIRC, and I love it. I only wish you well and I hate the piracy you’re facing. I truly believe that adapting how you produce your current and future devices could make the difference between you giving up and prospering; I wish for the latter.

  8. Totally agree with the entire ruiner and ruiner pt2 posts, would never buy a clone as long as the original dev is still around and even then I would try super hard to get a legit one – clones are always inferior in some way – I totally respect the time / dev work / cost etc that goes into something like this and if I ever become rich I would love to pay you to teach me some of your tricks and tips!!!

    • They were open just now, but closed again – not open as long as they were last time when I missed them, sorry you missed out.

  9. i would just like a way to preorder 1 of every you have or be put on a list and emailed when time comes to pay or whatever im not in a hurry

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