Ruiner, contd.

This will be a rant. Though it’s a blog I normally don’t do rants – but seeing how I started this shitstorm it’s only fitting I try to clean up the mess. And I have better things to do than argue with Internet warriors in the comments, it’s a loosing battle so one last post and I’m done with it.

First, thank you people for all the kind words. I didn’t say I WILL raise the prices, just that I’m considering it. The example I gave was just that, an example. But then again if I do add more security to my new projects I might have no other choice but to revise the pricing somewhat. All of that is still something I’m thinking about.

Second, I expected the “it’s your fault” argument but it still surprises me how many people belive that. This is my last ditch attempt at explaining my position, I will ignore any further comments on that.

So you say it’s all because of poor availability that you buy clones. And you give me “an offer I can’t refuse” – either I make more devices or you will buy the clone. Moral, legal and free market arguments aside, that is simply put bullshit.

Let’s say I priced my devices 250 Euro a piece. Or, better yet, 500. How many people do you think would buy a GDEMU for 500? I’d be lucky to sell any at all. So I would have stock, since nobody is buying. Great availability. Except now you’d claim (and rightfully so) that my prices are insane, and you want to get my device but can’t pay so much so you’re going to buy the clone instead. Same story, different angle.

So, really, what you want is that I have both stock and low price. And while I fully understand that, it’s not how things work, I have my limits. And not just me, there has been and will be a lot of other products out there that people want, and cheaply too. And they are not going to get it. The latest being RAM and GPUs for example.

In fact I belive I can stretch this argument further – if I had the device more often in stock you’d demand other concessions. Lower the price. Have the orders always open. Lower the price again. Because it’s the same demand all over again – the cloners have it, and they have it cheaper.

Well, the whole point of cloning is that all you have to do is manufacturing. No R&D, no software, no testing, no work on other devices, nothing but manufacturing. And in a place where both the parts and labor are way cheaper the price is always going to be better than mine. So I can NEVER, ever, win on the price or availability – and so you’ll always have the argument that the cloner is just “better business” for you.

Now, granted, some might say that if the price is close enough they would rather buy the original. Well gee, thanks. But it’s again the same argument, either I meet your demands on what you think you should pay me, or you will just pay the thieves to steal from me instead. What’s not to like? “Here, have my 50$” for a device that costs me more in parts. “Don’t want it? I’m buying a clone instead and you should learn how to do business.”

As for the argument that you are staying up untill 5 in the morning to get into ordering queue, well, the Earth is round (belive it or not). From my point of view you live on the opposite side of it. But sure, feel free to blame me for that as well. After all I don’t need to sleep. And please spare me that old argument that you’d wait for months if necessary if you only you were sure to get the ODE. My current waiting times are weeks and already the attrition rate near the end of the list is so big that I take more orders than I have stock. So that’s bullshit too, I know from experience. I did a “long” list once, accidentaly, and that was an unmitigated disaster.

Morality and legality of buying clones aside, that is just a short-term gain and long-term loss for you, though I guess you don’t care. The message it sends is the device has to expensive and well secured. You’re going to bitch anyway, might as well profit on it. As for me – once burned, twice shy. There is perhaps a great community supporting projects like mine but it’s much smaller than it seems. Most people just want cheap toys to play with and don’t care how they get them. Seems obvious but I underestimated just how low some are willing to stoop to get what they want.

And that’s it folks. If this didn’t convince you, nothing will. Except maybe if it happens to you – and I really would like for you to learn that this stick you’re beating me with has two ends. One can only hope.

184 thoughts on “Ruiner, contd.

  1. I just want to say thank you for all that you did for the dreamcast and saturn scene, I managed to get 2 gdemus and a Rhea from you and I would gladly pay and support someone like you than purchase a clone, it took me almost a year to get my first gdemu but considering all the work you do and how busy you are I didn’t mind the wait at all some people just wont appreciate this but I believe most of us do so thanks again man and if prices need to go up then so be it it’s well worth it and I would gladly purchase another some time in the future.

    • That’s the thing I know its a wait but the satisfaction of getting a top quality product is what it’s about.

      Sod clones. You get what you pay for and I’d rather pay for quality than crap

  2. Your work is amazing! Got a GDEMU and a Rhea and I couldn’t be more happy with them. Sadly internet has a bunch of morons that think they are the center of the world and deserve to get what they want, how they want and when. Don’t let that discourage you to develop new products and increase security. It took work to develop and you should be payed for it, plain and simple. As you stated, clones just manufacture it, there is no other processes involved.

    Ignore the angry cry babies mob (sadly they will always be there) and do what you need to do.

    Keep up with the amazing work!

  3. I am starting to think a multitude of people doesn’t even try… Rhea was announced a couple of weeks ago. I saw it. He said thursday. I worked on assignments and wrote a script that would notify me when it was up. I got a notification, I got a Rhea in my saturn right now. I don’t roam his order page for 5 hours…. Certainly you mr anonymous could do the same thing so stop your complaining.

  4. It’s always the same bullshit ……..

    Everyone else knows it better. ( including me) 😉

    Here is my “advise/rant”.

    Just like in a relation.
    Parents, parents in law, (your relations) brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncles, grand parents.
    Your neighbor, their neighbors ……… the milkman ……
    They ALL know BETTER then you (and your partner) how to live your life(s), and what to do.

    I would say to those complainers ……STFU.
    Yes I said, STFU, shut your mouth, complainer(s).
    You complainer(s) can not even breath in a correct manner !!
    So keep your mouth shut (keyboard warrior, troll(s).

    Retarded wankers !!

    Can not wait for a excellent ODE ?

    Build your own open source GD ROM ODE.
    Which does not work as well as GDEMU !!!
    Here are the links, you retard(s).

    Most of you do not even know what the correct side of a soldering iron is.

    So burn, baby burn !!

    So, that is out of my system …….

    But you take the “effort” to inform everyone about the status quo.
    “Extremely” correct upon your part.

    An option is a few months of a site freeze.
    A message, with a date you COULD be back.
    Take some time to enjoy this summer with the ones you love .
    (don’t get sick “again”)

    Consider YOUR options.

    Your life it much more worth than any hobby project.
    Your ODE designs are excellent.
    You made the choice to share your ODE designs, with us end users.
    Which you could have kept for yourself.
    Just like CFW hackers, “I got a exploit for the latest firmware of X Y Z console”
    But I keep it to myself !!! ;P
    You even build, test and support (firmware updates) your ODE designs.
    And people keep complaining.

    We (I am) should be grateful !!

    Certainly those Asiatic copycats.
    A “free” design to copy.

    Even if you copyrighted your source code.
    In Asia it means a right to copy.

    And people complain they can not get their’s instantly.
    Delivered by you personally the next day.
    24 hours a day services.

    I was one of the lucky ones whom took the effort to buy one of the first GDEMU”s

    Come to think of it, it all started on April 1st 2014, what a joke ….

    This sales system you implemented works fine.
    People expect a unlimited well, with clean fresh water for free.
    Well, this well trickles …..fresh cool clean …….

    People expect a device that costs nothing, and works for free.
    They do not understand how much work and effort went into these ODE projects.

    They only know how to handle a joystick and copy files to a SD card.

    The people whom appreciate a well designed, assembled, supported device.
    They KNOW what the right thing to do is.

    They just have to wait their turn, with a bit of luck, they can get their original GDEMU.

    Frank Sinatra said it well.

    I did it my way !!!

  5. Maybe some positive info for all parties involved.

    High speed SD 7.0 cards, are backwards compatible !

    SD Express memory cards reach up to 985MB / s and can be up to 128TB in size

    The SD Association has announced the SD 7.0 specification. In it, the organization describes new SD Express memory cards that use the PCI-e interface and the nvme protocol, for speeds up to 985MB / s.

    According to the SD Association, the new SD 7.0 specification enables memory cards with a maximum storage capacity of 128 TB. That is a theoretical capacity; currently the maximum capacity for sdxc cards is 2TB. In practice, there are no tickets on the market with a storage capacity of more than 512GB.

    The high speed that is made possible by the use of the PCI-e 3.0 interface and the NVME 1.3 protocol is useful, for example, for recording slow motion or 8k video in raw format. Cameras that can do this usually use SSDs, or CFast 2.0 or XQD memory cards at the moment. These alternatives already use the PCI-e interface.

    Although the SD Express cards use a new interface, they retain the current format and also work in older devices. The cards fall back on the uhs-1 specification if they are used in equipment that has not yet been prepared for the SD Express standard. Conversely, it is possible to use older SD cards in an SD Express card slot.

    The SD Association has put a whitepaper online with an explanation about the SD Express standard. When there are actually devices on the market that support SD Express cards, and when the memory cards come on the market, is not yet known.

  6. I enjoy this new topic for give you all my support again.

    For me, the best issue to “kill” the clones ODE is to do an update (I understood bleem! is difficult but there is maybe some things easier) for hardware and software and then the clones will become useless.

    So now I’ll do the same thing than you, go ahead and waiting for an another batch 🙂

    Thanks again for all !

  7. It does suck to hear about the clones, I can imagine it’s infuriating, but there’s nothing you could have done. Their development was inevitable. If there’s a market, shady people will try and profit. All the people in the comments saying maybe this wouldn’t have happened if there was a different order system, pricing, wait list etc.. they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. The clones were still going to appear. Everdrives are a perfect example, they were cloned despite the fact that availability was never an issue with the originals. Some people are simply cheap and want to cut corners.

    The only positive reassurance I can offer is there are people who want quality. I’m not going to install questionable knockoffs in vintage gaming hardware. I want a product with accumulated expertise and future support behind it, which is exactly what your products have. Sure I may have missed an order window or two to finally get a GDEMU, but patiently waiting for another opportunity was always the only logical choice. Thanks for your past and future endeavours.

  8. I just want to say THANK YOU for all you did for the Dreamcast community. GDEMU is great and I use it very often.

  9. I am wholeheartedly with you.
    It’s been 2 months that I’m on the lookout to acquire a GDEMU and also a PHOEBE, so raise prices is a good idea: the out of stock will be slower.
    So I keep coming 2-3 times a week, hoping not to miss the exceptional opening of the shop.

  10. Hang in there man! Those cheap clones will not live up to the original! Also, I’m praying that you will make Sega CD ODE! Hopefully for all all Sega CD variants!

  11. Another person with no moral compass..

    Capitalism is creating a product to complete or fill the gap where someone else might night be able to meet the demand. USB GDROM is competition. GDEMU clone is not.

    When someone buys your hard to get item, knowing the seller/developer can not mee the demand and clones it or copies it bit for bit it is called THEFT.. That is not capitalism.

    This is why the world is full or bad people.

  12. I wont support clones, and I will continue to purchase your products.

  13. I’ve bought a rhea phoebe and gdemu always got one on the first try. Don’t know what all the fuss about not getting one is if you really really want one and your smart enough to know all the tricks to get one then you will get one. People need to stop bitching about it being so hard to get at the end of the day it’s not life or death if you get one or not. Instead of bitching just support the developer and that’s it. In me you have a loyal follower always whatever you put out I will always put my money on your work!

  14. Bravo. 👏🏻

    I’ve got an even more esoteric board coming out for the Nuon and pricing is a huge issue, thankfully we’re sitting on a pile of NOS proprietary controller chips.

    btw, you seem like the resident ODE expert, want to chat Nuon at some point? – Lee Olivares – (909) 437-0250 – The Future or Bust.

  15. I’m only peripherally aware of what is going on in the dreamcast scene, so I had no idea there was a clone until you said so here on your blog.
    I have been subscribed to your RSS feed for over a year in the hopes that I will see a gdemu sales notice in time to actually purchase one.
    Sadly that opportunity never came for me.
    I understand that there was no realistic way you could have scaled up production without risking the very kind of cloning activity happened anyway here.
    Perhaps a better model would be to setup a patreon and subscribers get early access to new firmware? Outsource all production to China and sell it at cost?
    At any rate I just purchased a clone.
    I feel guilty that someone of your talents is not being compensated, so if you send me a PayPal money request for EUR50 I will pay it.

  16. You got all my support, with all the amazing that you’ve done for the community throughout the years, you deserve nothing but our utmost respect.

    Sure, me and many others would have preferred that pre-orders are kept open all the time, but then again I fully understand the general “support” that goes into every single ODE device, so manufacturing the units is not the only time-consuming process here.

    I’m an avid of both GDEMU and Rhea units that I own and I’m still looking to get a Phoebe whenever it’s available, but the PCE ODE is what eluded me for years now! (I know you said that you were gonna redesign the board in your previous post).

    Keep up the awesome job!

  17. What’s the forecast for the next batch of Phoebe and Rhea?

  18. I support what you are doing 100%. Once again this is the retro console market. You are not a “piracy enabler”. You are doing us all a service in helping to keep games/systems that are no longer for sale available and working for future generations (and for us old guys to relive childhoods). So despite what some idiots may say you should have a right to your work. It is very different from someone making a piracy device for current gen consoles – to steal others work – and then complaining about others stealing their work. (And even then I’d rather support the original out of purely self interest wanting to support the people who might do more cool stuff in the future.) I have crossed my fingers (and other extremities) in hopes that this will not do much to impact your business so that in the future you can be look back at this as merely an annoyance.

    My only humble request – as you write code to secure your devices PLEASE do not include bricking code – especially console bricking code. It is not that I am worried about what happens to the devices/consoles of the thieves. It is because everytime I have seen someone using a bricking code in a product, it ends up glitching from time to time and affecting legitimate customers as well.

    Once again, thanks for your contributions to the scene. And I will reiterate, those of you who have rationalized that you need to buy the clone because you have no other choice due to low availability are full of $&!@. There are other slightly different choices out there that do not steal from Deunan. What you really think is “I want what I want when i want for the price I want because everything is owed to me – screw anyone who gets hurt in the process” – which is really quite sad. My dog is more morally aware.

  19. GDEMU deleted a whole slew of comments. It was at 120 now at 105.

    Wonder what those people said…….

  20. Hey bro…I bought two of your items, and I’ll buy your original PCE. I’ll support people who actually create new things.
    Not everyone is a cheapskate.

  21. Has anyone ever noticed or mentioned that there was a tiny little smiley face at the bottom of every page for Gdemu’s wordpress site?

      • Which one Jay? Noticed or Mentoned? I can’t find a comment going back 4 years about it. If there is one, point me to it.. LOL

      • I noticed it a few years back. I seem to recall it leading to a stats page or something like that at one point.

  22. Hi,
    I just want to tell you I will be waiting here as long as it takes and will not be buying a clone GDEMU. I support your work. Please keep it up.

  23. I would rather pay you rather than the flippers for the prices flipper units are going for. I could not hope to obtain any of your products at the rate your inventory becomes depleted.

  24. I appreciate the hard work put in on these but like many others find it difficult to even get a shot at getting anything. What is the best way to be notified when orders are going to be up?

    • The way to get one is easy with a little information. Read the blog on a regular basis. He updates when the next sale will be in the comments as well as the main blog itself. He usually will state something like Rhea will be going up Saturday. He usually opens orders up between 3 am to 6 am EST. He has been much more exact with a time recently but who knows if that will continue. Once you know the date and the time window it’s up to you to be at your keyboard to refresh the ordering page. Use control along with F5 for best results refreshing. Many people use a program to let them know if any changes have occurred to the webpage and it will send them an alert or trigger an alarm. This has not worked well for me but others have had great luck with it. Once he opens orders you’ll see a form appear at the bottom of the order page. It asks for some very basic information like Name, Email address, Country you reside, for Rhea and Phoebe it will make you pick a model version so he can send you the correct board for the revision of console you own and most importantly your PayPal email address. Fill that info in and hit send. You should see a message like ‘message sent’. I don’t recall the exact wording. That’s it. Next you receive an email from him within a couple days stating that he has added you to the list. He will state the timeframe of when he expects the order to be ready which usually is a couple weeks. Once that time has passed he will send you an email request for payment via PayPal. The request will also show up directly on your PayPal account so check it every few days. Make your payment and that’s it. You’ll receive the ODE with a few weeks but really depends on where you live.

      This information is priceless for people new to this process. I recall it being a little confusing on what to do when I first ordered one. I remember reading all of the blog posts to piece together what to do and that was a real pain the ass.

      Good luck.

      • Cool. Thanks for tips HappySlappy. Im on the east coast of the US so those hours are tough but now I have an idea how to attempt getting an ODE. Much appreciated for taking the time to explain 🙂

  25. Dear GDEMU, I wrote you but you still ain’t callin’
    I left my cell, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
    I sent two letters back in autumn, you must not-a got ’em
    There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin’
    Sometimes I scribble addresses too sloppy when I jot ’em
    But anyways, fuck it, what’s been up? Man how’s your daughter?
    My girlfriend’s pregnant too, I’m bout to be a father
    If I have a daughter, guess what I’m a call her?
    I’m a name her Phoebe
    I read about GDEMU copy too I’m sorry
    I had a friend kill himself over some bitch who didn’t want him
    I know you probably hear this everyday, but I’m your biggest fan
    I even got the DocBrown ODE that you made by hand
    I got a room full of your posters and your pictures man
    I like the shit you did with Dreamcast too, that shit was fat
    Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back
    Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
    This is Abe

  26. Keep up the great work. You have my full support. I appreciate your great engineering skill. Your gdemu has brought my Dreamcast back to live after being unusable for over a decade.

  27. @gdemu.

    How can one tell the differences of a clone and a genuine pcb? Are there any cosmetic differences?

    • It sits lower than original (so 3D printed trays won’t fit) and has 3 plastic pegs instead of 2 and a screw to hold it in place.

  28. I am happy to own an official Rhea and GDemu which I bought some years ago. I also have other products from Krikzz,etc

    I know about cheaper knockoffs (cos that’s what they are, not clones because they are not identical, just bad imitations that China is known for) but I never buy that Chinese crap.

    Whoever it is, I will always buy from the official developer, firstly to support their R&D and continued support and secondly to buy a good reliable product with no problems.

    Screw the clones and screw you millennial idiots here impatiently screaming you want everything spoon fed to you, I hate this want everything now generation. Go buy those crappy clones and we will laugh at you with your inferior crap!!

  29. Im sorry, I missed my payment window. I thought I’d get a payment request before my cruise to Mexico last Saturday. Then I thought I’d be able to make payment while I was away, but my phone just would not work out there. Verizon says it would, but it didn’t. I received the payment and cancellation notice when I got home. If you resend it, I’ll get it paid immediately. If not, I understand…. I can try again next time.

  30. I feel for you man this is an outrage.i would rather pay 500 euro for a product from YOU than pay $1 US, for any CLONE.I thank you for all you have done for the gaming community,and i support any decision you make.Do you know you will be taking pre orders for RHEA?
    Also if/when the PCE ODE comes out will you make a version for the DUORX?
    I wish you all the luck in these trying times! and i completely understand if it never happens or you dont reply.PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT BUY CLONES you should all be grateful this man has blessed us with such amazing products!

  31. I hope you don’t have to raise your prices on GDEMU because I would like to buy one when I have the money and I will NOT buy a clone or inferior product. I value the work that enthusiasts like yourself put into future proofing and adding new features to old hardware.

  32. I cannot understand people whining about availability. If you really want something, you have to be patient and play by the rules of the game. cheating (in this case buying clones) is better for your wallet but worse for the overall user experience.
    At first I was afraid to order a product from overseas due several factors including my country’s unreliable postal service and the supposed “difficulty” to catch the order window. I heard from various sources including My life in gaming that it was near to impossible to get a product from GDEMU, but the reality is that people is lazy. When I finally decided to order a Rhea, I set an alarm for 4:00 am and went to sleep not expecting to get one, but to my surprise the orders were open for almost 30 minutes so I don’t know where those rumors about GDEMU’s products going out of stock in less than a minute came from. I was so satisfied with my Rhea that I ordered a GDEMU on first try too.

    TL:DR – It is easier to install a Google chrome plugin to reload the order page every 5 seconds than crying on Reddit about not being able to get a Rhea/Phoebe/GDemu

  33. I’ll add my voice to the supporters here.

    I am not a customer of yours, yet. I’ve been following your site for some time out of interest, and at some point I will pull the trigger and order both a GDEMU and a Rhea/Phoebe (depending on what I have on hand at the time). Rest assured I have no interest in buying some knock-off clone piece of crap.

    Yes, it’s a pain to order one. Yes, I wish you had more. But most importantly, Yes, I wish to have a quality piece of hardware. I accept the the trade off.

    Just keep doing what you’re doing. Haters gonna hate. Cloners gonna clone. Fuck ’em.

  34. I agree with Jason. Don’t let the cloners dictate your roadmap. Make good hardware, sell it at a fair, sustainable price, and people will support you. Don’t tear your hair out over cloners. Everything is being cloned; it’s very rare that clones substantially affect the original product’s sales numbers. Somehow, people still prefer real Nikes and Rolexes over their copies.

    I wish I could buy both a GDEMU and a Rhea/Phoebe, but I’ve missed all of the sales. I wish sales were handled differently, but that won’t dissuade me from trying to buy from you.

  35. Man, as you always said, this is more of a AdventureQuest than a business. So I’m here to thank you, I bought mine from you 2 years ago and has given me great times. My dc is one thing I love. So don’t prive good people from your product just cuz some didn’t took The time to read through your blog and realize how little you care about making the living out of it. I’m saving my money for a reah! Yeah! I’m dying to playa panzer dragoon.

  36. You have my full support GDEMU, your product is the REAL thing and I’d 100% pay for a legit version any day! Keep up the amazing work you do!

  37. Bravo Doc for the work you do, you revive our consoles the most beautiful effect! I languish the next delivery to order one of these jewels! Are there any dates planned or not in this case?

  38. I was super salty that I missed my chance to order a gdemu last time. I was refreshing and refreshing and then I saw that while I was refreshing the window opened and closed. I was so pissed because nothing changed and I think it was because my browser cached the site….but I was pissed because I really wanted YOUR product. It’s the same shit I see on some everdrive groups posting (HAHA all you fuck tards paying 100 bucks for a genesis everdrive when I just got mine from aliexpress for 10 bucks HAHA). I bought the REAL deal because I want to support you guys. You guys our supporting us with amazing work and a ton of your fucking time.

    Keep it up and one of these days I’m going to snag both a gdemu and a Phoebe.

    Thank you!

      • They dont seem to be based in china. Cant you take any legal action against them?

      • Possibly. Question is, do I want to spend money on lawyers for in Canada on what is a very niche item? And even if I’m successful that only takes care of one distributor, you can still order directly from China.

      • You don’t need a lawyer to send C&D letters to them, their ISP, etc.

        As for the price. Not sure why it’s a “joke.” People pay for convenience. $50 isn’t much to save a number of hours trying to order the real deal and getting it now rather than later.

      • And they don’t need a lawyer to tell me to fuck off. Time: wasted. Solved: nothing.
        As for the joke, I guess it’s lost on you. Read my post on price vs availability and maybe you’ll get it.

      • Drafting and sending an email is too much work? Really? Why do you even bother posting if you are unwilling to do anything to change the situation? You realize that even with copyright and trademark there is a legal expectation that you take some initiative? With the latter especially?

        I’m well aware of what you wrote prior and find it lacking. Availability isn’t just about price as you seem to make it out to be. Time is worth >$0. Ease of purchase is worth >$0. Etc.

      • Just so you know… constructive criticism != trolling. Attributing bad motives to people who are legitimately trying to help won’t get you very far.

      • Mislabeling trolling as constructive criticism doesn’t negate the trolling. You’re being a jackass, you know you are, knock it off.

      • I’m glad you know my intentions better than I do. Quite the skill you have there.

        If I wanted to troll I’d 1) not use a real account 2) make claims on how great the clones are or similar. Instead I was offering pretty straightforward info on attempting to deal with the situation and how the law expects an IP holder to act. If gdemu wants to ignore the facts of the matter and complain rather than act… so be it.

      • My observation of your intentions is based on your actions. Everyone can see what you’re doing. Your defense is laughable. Concern trolling is still trolling. I’ll let you have the final word, you day-glo clown.

      • I’m embarrassed that these fellow Canadians are not only selling these counterfeits, but also stole your name for their website. Sorry this is happening to you man ;_;

  39. Agreed with all who support you and your product. Along the lines of getting an actual device from you, any timeframe estimates on the next gdemu batch?

    • I have a batch of GDEMUs that are missing some parts – if I can get those soon than I should be able to open orders in a week or so. If not I’ll try with Phoebes, also a week or two away. And DocBrown somewhere in between too – it’s all a lot of work.

  40. Got my email in the form on that big June 16th day, but no invoice yet (got the initial confirmation). Are you still sending out invoices?

    • No, all done, I’m moping up. Once the last non-payments time out I can consider the batch completed.

Comments are closed.